God Or Science

This is why these morons piss me off so much.

Philosophically Frank, who is as logical and philosophical as the fly I just swatted for buzzing around my computer, in reply to a post by Hally stating ‘I AM PRO-CHOICE, PRO-LIFE AND ANTI-WAR,’ in a thread entitled Life Begins At Conception, counters with the following:

How can you be both Pro-Life and Pro-Choice? Pro-Life is for Life; while Pro-choice is for both Life & Death; which makes it, essentially, an oxymoron.

However, Your initial post is right-on even scientifically. At the moment of conception a new DNA is formed and it is the DNA of a human and distinctive of it’s individuality. Most mothers will talk about how they can feel their baby kicking in their womb. A blob of “cells” doesn’t “kick”. Abortion is not only murder; but, it is a huge for profit industry that also is given hundreds of millions of our tax dollars at almost every level of Gov’t. in the guise of Women’s Reproductive Care or some variation of it.

Peace be with you, Frank

I have made the same claim as Halley numerous times on RA, but the complete imbeciles who vomit and piss stupidity and hate all over the forums with impunity are too brain dead from religious indoctrination to get that ‘being FOR THE RIGHT TO MAKE A CHOICE, which is what the term PRO-CHOICE actually means, does NOT logically entail that you are actually IN FAVOR OF THE CHOCIE THAT IS MADE.

This is apparently too difficult for morons like ol’ Frankie Boy to comprehend. As he stated, ‘Pro-Life is for Life; while Pro-choice is for both Life & Death; which makes it, essentially, an oxymoron’. Someone who REALLY understand logic and reason (i.e., philosophy) wouldn’t be this big of a fucking idiot. I guess it is really his nickname, PHILOSOPHICALLY FRANK, which is, essentially, an oxymoron.

written by admin \\ tags: Abortion, Renew America Forum

He SHAMES the christ of the far right every time he opens his fat, hate-spewing mouth and flaps his jaws in a vain attempt to justify his SINS. MURDERERS should not get a pulpit. Will any on the far right denounce this MURDERER? Or will they make posters of the man and turn him into some sort of sick celebrity for their twisted agenda?

Suspect in Kan. doctor’s death warns of violence
By ROXANA HEGEMAN, Associated Press Writer – June 7, 2009

WICHITA, Kan. – The man charged with killing abortion provider Dr. George Tiller [b]claimed Sunday that more violence is possible while the medical procedure is allowed to continue[/b], giving his warning in calls that also focused on complaints about his treatment in jail. Scott Roeder, being held on charges of first-degree murder and aggravated assault in Tiller’s killing one week ago, called The Associated Press from the Sedgwick County jail. Tiller, whose Wichita clinic was among only a few in the U.S. performing third-trimester abortions, was shot while serving as an usher at the Lutheran church he attended. “I know there are many other similar events planned around the country as long as abortion remains legal,” Roeder said. He would not elaborate.

Tiller’s clinic in Wichita had been a target of regular demonstrations by abortion opponents. Most were peaceful, but his clinic was bombed in 1986 and he was shot in both arms in 1993. In 1991, a 45-day “Summer of Mercy” campaign organized by Operation Rescue drew thousands of abortion opponents to Wichita, and there were more than 2,700 arrests. Jim Cross, a spokesman for the U.S. attorney’s office, did not have an immediate comment Sunday on Roeder’s statement. The Justice Department opened an investigation Friday to see if the gunman who killed Tiller had accomplices. The DOJ said its Civil Rights Division and the U.S. attorney’s office in Kansas will seek to determine if the killing violated a 1994 law creating criminal penalties for violent or damaging conduct toward abortion providers and their patients.

An attorney for the Tiller family, Dan Monnat, said he wasn’t sure they should be dignifying Roeder’s actions and threats with a response “every time he makes a hare-brained phone call.” “I am hopeful that state and federal authorities, including homeland security, will give Mr. Roeder and his information a deserving response,” Monnat said, declining to elaborate. A funeral was held Saturday for Tiller. Most anti-abortion groups avoided the service, having denounced Tiller’s shooting. Roeder, a 51-year-old abortion opponent, was arrested a few hours after the shooting just outside Kansas City. He told the AP he refused to talk to investigators when he was arrested, and has made no statements to police since then. “I just told them I needed to talk to my lawyer,” Roeder said.

Asked if he shot Tiller, Roeder replied that he could not comment about that and said he needed to clear everything with his lawyer. In two separate calls to AP on Sunday morning, Roeder was far more talkative about his treatment at the Sedgwick County jail, complaining about “deplorable conditions in solitary” where he was kept during his first three days there. Roeder said it was freezing in his cell. “I started having a bad cough. I thought I was going to have pneumonia,” he said. He said he called AP because he wanted to emphasize the conditions in the jail so that in the future suspects would not have to endure the same conditions. Roeder also said also wanted the public to know he has been denied phone privileges for the past two days, and needed his sleep apnea machine.

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Yep. As if we really needed confirmation. This guy was a brainwashed zombie sheep of the Randall Terry/Alan Keyes set. This clearly shows that religious fanaticism is DANGEROUS. I wish there was some way to punish the sick, hate spewing movement that gave birth to this degenerate monster. I wouldn’t be surprised if the faithful thought this KOOK was going to Heaven to be with 69 virgin boys and girls. In reality, he is going to rot in the same place that Hitler and Specter are.

Man charged in death of Kansas abortion provider

WICHITA, Kan. – An activist abortion opponent was charged Tuesday with first-degree murder in the death of late-term abortion provider Dr. George Tiller, and the prosecutor said the evidence in the case ruled out the death penalty. Scott Roeder, 51, was shown via a video link from the Sedgwick County Jail. He fiddled with the charging documents on a podium in front of him, and said “OK” three times as Judge Ben Burgess read the charges and explained the court process. Burgess ordered Roeder to be held without bond and said he was not allowed to communicate with Tiller’s family or two witnesses he allegedly assaulted. The judge told Roeder that he would be assigned a public defender. “And I’ll obviously be hearing from one of those lawyers between now — or do you know how long it will be before I hear from one of those lawyers?” Roeder said. Within two days, the judge answered to Roeder’s only question in the brief appearance. A preliminary hearing is set for June 16. If convicted on the murder charge, Roeder would face a mandatory life sentence and would not be eligible for parole for at least 25 years. Sedgwick County District Attorney Nola Foulston would not release any details of the crime at a news conference after the hearing, but said evidence against Roeder ruled out the death penalty.

Roeder is accused of shooting Tiller to death Sunday at the doctor’s Lutheran church in Wichita as he was serving as an usher. Roeder also was charged with aggravated assault for allegedly threatening two people who tried to stop him. Roeder was arrested about three hours after the shooting near Gardner, about 170 miles northeast of Wichita. His last known address is in Kansas City, Mo. Roeder’s family life began unraveling more than a decade ago when he got involved with anti-government groups, and then became “very religious in an Old Testament, eye-for-an-eye way,” his former wife, Lindsey Roeder, told The Associated Press. “The anti-tax stuff came first, and then it grew and grew. He became very anti-abortion,” said Lindsey Roeder, who was married to Scott Roeder for 10 years but “strongly disagrees with his beliefs.” They divorced in 1996 and have one son, now 22.

Roeder’s brother, David, also said he suffered from mental illness at various times in his life. Someone using the name Scott Roeder posted comments about Tiller on anti-abortion Web sites, including one that referred to the doctor as the “concentration camp Mengele of our day” — a reference to the Nazi doctor who performed ghastly medical experiments on Jews and others at Auschwitz. The posting said Tiller “needs to be stopped before he and those who protect him bring judgment upon our nation.” Tiller’s death has focused attention on the availability of third-trimester abortions, as the few remaining providers age with little interest from new doctors to offer such services. Tiller’s family says there were no plans yet to reopen his Wichita clinic, despite earlier comments from Dr. LeRoy Carhart, one of four physicians who worked at the clinic. Funeral services for Tiller are planned for 10 a.m. Saturday at College Hill United Methodist Church.

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This was bound to happen. The far right is so out-of-control angry at the left that it was only a matter of time before something like this happened. I can only hope that these people don’t start cheering like the Palestinians did on 9/11. They are so fond of telling the world that Islam is the religion of violence, not christianity. I call BS. It is particularly ironic that this happened at a church.

Source: Abortion doc Tiller gunned down at church

WICHITA, Kan. – Late-term abortion doctor George Tiller, a prominent advocate for abortion rights wounded by a protester more than a decade ago, was shot and killed Sunday at his church in Wichita, a city official said. A City Hall official who spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn’t authorized to speak about the case told The Associated Press that the 67-year-old doctor was killed Sunday morning at Reformation Lutheran Church.

Police spokesman Gordon Bassham would not confirm the victim’s identity pending notification of relatives. He said the shooting occurred at 10:03 a.m. and the gunman fled the scene in a 1993 powder blue Ford Taurus registered in another part of the state. Bassham said no suspects were in custody. He said it is not clear whether one or more suspects were involved. Capt. Brent Allred said police were looking for a gunman who fled in a 1993 light blue Ford Taurus registered in Merriam. Anti-abortion group Operation Rescue issued a statement denouncing the shooting.

Tiller has been among the few U.S. physicians performing late-term abortions. His clinic has repeatedly been the site of protests for about two decades and he was shot and wounded in both arms by a protester in 1993. He remained prominent in the news in recent years, in part because of an investigation begun by former Kansas Attorney General Phill Kline, an abortion opponent. Prosecutors had alleged that Tiller had gotten second opinions from a doctor who was essentially an employee of his, not independent as state law requires, but a jury in March acquitted him of all 19 misdemeanor counts against him.

Abortion opponents also questioned then-Gov. Kathleen Sebelius’ ties to Tiller before the Senate confirmed her this year as U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary. Tiller donated thousands of dollars to Sebelius over the years.

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Clearly, the protests by the bible thumping Victorian Neanderthals, who want science to come to a standstill because (they falsely believe) some book written 2000 years ago tells them stem cells are living human beings, didn’t work. How dare these people try to stop medical research because of their ‘religion’. But that is another matter. 

Obama calls for understanding in Notre Dame speech
By JULIE PACE, Associated Press Writer – Sunday, May 17, 2009

SOUTH BEND, Ind. – President Barack Obama strode head-on Sunday into the stormy abortion debate and told graduates at America’s leading Roman Catholic university that both sides must stop demonizing one another. Obama acknowledged that “no matter how much we want to fudge it … the fact is that at some level, the views of the two camps are irreconcilable.” But he still implored the University of Notre Dame’s graduating class and all in the U.S. to stop “reducing those with differing views to caricature. Open hearts. Open minds. Fair-minded words. It’s a way of life that always has been the Notre Dame tradition.”

One of the noisiest controversies of his young presidency flared after Obama, who supports abortion rights but says the procedure should be rare, was invited to speak at the school and receive an honorary degree. “I do not suggest that the debate surrounding abortion can or should go away,” the president said. The Rev. John Jenkins, Notre Dame’s president, introduced Obama and praised the president for not being “someone who stops talking to those who disagree with him.” Jenkins said too little attention has been paid to Obama’s decision to speak at an institution that opposes his abortion policy.

Ahead of Obama’s address, at least 27 people were arrested on trespassing charges. They included Norma McCorvey, the plaintiff identified as “Roe” in the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision that legalized abortion. She now opposes abortion and joined more than 300 anti-abortion demonstrators at the school’s front gate. More than half held signs, some declaring “Shame on Notre Dame” and “Stop Abortion Now” to express their anger over Notre Dame’s invitation to Obama.

Obama entered the arena to thunderous applause and a standing ovation from many in the crowd of 12,000. But as the president began his commencement address, at least three protesters interrupted it. One yelled, “Stop killing our children.” The graduates responded by chanting “Yes we can”, the slogan that became synonymous with Obama’s presidential campaign. Obama seem unfazed, saying Americans must be able to deal with things that make them “uncomfortable.”

The president, in prepared remarks released by the White House, ceded no ground. But he said those on each side of the debate “can still agree that this is a heart-wrenching decision for any woman to make, with both moral and spiritual dimensions. “So let’s work together to reduce the number of women seeking abortions by reducing unintended pregnancies, and making adoption more available, and providing care and support for women who do carry their child to term.” He said he favored “a sensible conscience clause” that would give anti-abortion health care providers the right to refuse to perform the procedure.

Before taking on the abortion issue, Obama told graduates they were part of a “generation that must find a path back to prosperity and decide how we respond to a global economy that left millions behind even before this crisis hit an economy where greed and short-term thinking were too often rewarded at the expense of fairness, and diligence, and an honest day’s work.” Obama’s appearance appeared additionally complicated by fresh polls that show Americans’ attitudes on the issue have shifted toward the anti-abortion position. A Gallup survey released Friday found that 51 percent of those questioned call themselves “pro-life” on the issue of abortion and 42 percent “pro-choice.” This is the first time a majority of U.S. adults have identified themselves as “pro-life” since Gallup began asking this question in 1995.

Just a year ago, Gallup found that 50 percent termed themselves “pro-choice” while 44 percent described their beliefs as “pro-life.” A Pew Research Center survey found public opinion about abortion more closely divided than it has been in several years. Pew said its latest polling found that 28 percent said abortion should be legal in most cases while 18 percent said all cases. Forty-four percent of those surveyed were opposed to abortion in most or all cases. Gallup said shifting opinions lay almost entirely with Republicans or independents who lean Republican, with opposition among those groups rising over the past year from 60 percent to 70 percent.

The abortion issue also is front and center as Obama considers potential nominees to fill the vacancy left by the retirement this summer of Justice David Souter. Abortion opponents are determined to see Roe v. Wade overturned, but only four court justices out of nine have backed that position. Souter has opposed arguments for overturning the ruling. The Catholic Church and many other Christian denominations hold that abortion and the use of embryos for stem cell research amount to the destruction of human life, are morally wrong and should be banned by law. The contrary argument holds that women have the right to terminate a pregnancy and that unused embryos created outside the womb for couples who cannot otherwise conceive should be available for stem cell research. Such research holds the promise of finding treatments for debilitating ailments.

Within weeks of taking office in January, Obama eased an executive order by President George W. Bush that limited research to a small number of stem-cell strains. On the Notre Dame campus, members of an abortion rights group also protested while a plane pulling an anti-abortion banner circled above. Tara Makowski of Seattle, who received a master’s degree Saturday from the school, said she was dismayed by the way Notre Dame was being characterized. “Seeing us being portrayed nationally as radical conservative has been really tough,” she said. “People need to realize that the majority of students and faculty” favored Obama’s visit.

But Bishop John D’Arcy, whose diocese includes Notre Dame, skipped commencement. He attended an open-air Mass and rally. He said he wanted to support the students protesting Obama’s speech.
“All of you are heroes, and I’m proud to stand with you,” he said. Obama was the ninth president to receive an honorary degree from Notre Dame and sixth sitting president to address graduates. Other commencement speakers have included Dwight Eisenhower, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush.

Back in Washington, Vice President Joe Biden attended Mass with his family at Holy Trinity Church, where a granddaughter received her first Communion.

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